How can you charge what you’re worth and get it?
You could slap a price on your product (or service) and hope for the best…
…or you can take matters into your own hands, and watch customers LINE UP to buy your products.
I know you prefer the latter, and that’s why you’ll love the second Social Triggers Insider master class. Just click play to listen to the training. It’s free.
How Ramit Sethi Combines A Stanford Education in Persuasion with Online Marketing to Sell a Ton
By now you know that smart entrepreneurs who want to use the web to attract leads and make sales must master the field of human behavior to thrive in today’s overcrowded marketplace.
And that’s why I invited Ramit Sethi to participate on the second Social Triggers Insider. Just click to play.
If you enjoyed this podcast, you can now subscribe to it on iTunes. Click here to subscribe + leave a review
Who is Ramit?
He’s the New York Times best-selling author of I Will Teach You to Be Rich and founder of IWillTeachYouToBeRich.com, a blog that hosts more than 300,000 monthly readers.
And like me, he develops a deep understanding of the psychology of his customers, so he can sell them exactly what they want at exactly the right price.
Don’t forget to grab the bonus material on “How to Write a $100,000 survey.” Most surveys suck, but with this “short-course,” you’ll learn how to write winning surveys that win business.
Now here’s what you’ll learn during this audio master class:
- The one question people ask that raises a “red flag,” and proves that they’re destined to fail.
- The “secret sauce” that powers an entrepreneurs wildly successful information business (and yes, this same “recipe” can work for you too).
- Why you should spend more time telling people to unsubscribe from your site than convincing people to buy your products.
- How you can charge what you’re worth and actually get it! (Hint: It’s all about understanding what goes on inside the mind of your customers)
- Why you shouldn’t sell anything on your website… and how that leads to more money and better customers.
Right click this link to save the audio as an mp3 to your computer.
If you prefer a transcript, right click to save this transcript.
Here’s What You Need To Do Next…
Now that you listened to the audio master class, and you took notes, here’s what you need to do next:
- Tell me what your favorite part of this training was. Leave a comment, and tell me exactly what you plan to do now that you’ve gone through this.
- If you absolutely loved this Social Triggers Insider master class, share it with your friends on social media (or better yet, write someone a personal email :-D).
- Go grab the bonus material on how to write winning surveys. Not sure how long Ramit will leave it up, so grab it now.
Wow – awesome interview!
Question – on the link to the bonus material page, the images to the surveys aren’t loading. I’ve tried reloading the page a few times and on 2 different browsers. If there’s a chance of getting those resolved, I’d love to see them!
Thanks for a great interview. Always get a lot of value from Ramit.
I really loved the part about Ramit not allowing people with CC debt into his course! The psychology behind it is mind blowing! By allowing them in, you’re allowing people to treat your content as a commodity.
Ramit says though, this costs him a lot business. But I think, if he did allow them in, they wouldn’t follow the course like they should, which would relate to more refunds, which relates to a unsuccessful product. So by doing it, he’s actually guaranteeing his product is a success! So awesome!!!
That’s a very cool interview.
Thanks for sharing and the time you put on it.
When can I ask you some questions for an interview in my site? 🙂
Brilliant! I have done interviews with such brilliant minds as Jon Morrow, Danny Iny, Brad Yates, Farnoosh Brock, Srinivas Rao, Jason Fonceca, Alden Tan, Dave Arena, Kat Dawes, Mary Jaksch and quite a few more and I never even thought to put pictures of them on my own site.
I will be looking up how to do some sort of rotating picture box asap! Thanks, you will have me busy for the next few days now… I am not techie at all! lol I hate you for that!
Hi, visited socialtriggers 1st time ever and listened 1st pod-caster. I am really impressed from your work.
You asked great questions and Ramit answered it perfectly well. It has been a great addition to my knowledge, this Podcaster might compel me to take a strategic shift for my blog. Love you Man!
Excellent interview with Ramit. I was completely impressed with your discussion about the different price points for digital info products. Prior to this podcast, how did you determine the price and value of your info packages?
Both this in interview and the Sally Hogshead one have
been extremely helpful to my business.
and also as I keep reading Social Triggers, I keep hearing similar messages from different people, which shows there importance…such as
“You must earn fans..and haters!”
Keep up the good work Derek,
Etosha, your biggest fan from Baltimore
Excellent interview. I loved his stress on thorough research, and his no-hype approach.
Really interesting. However, since I am the mother of two, although not midwestern, I guess i am excluded. What is it about being female and having two offspring that makes my interest irrelevant? I have not heard such blatant sexism for about 20 years. This guy went to Stanford? Did he park his brain at the door? He need not worry about me, I won’t be visiting his site anytime soon.
Thank you very much for this ‘master class!’ The second master class is excellent. I am happy to have the information on your ‘AHA’ moment that you shared in your newsletter. I’ll definitely be implementing it.
Wow. That was an awesome interview Derek. I love your own enthusiasm and Ramit shared some fantastic info. Research is so key and I have been doing surveys every year but now I’m going to get that bonus info and make my survey a lot better.
Thankyou. I’ll review on iTunes.
Wait — so you’re saying that I should be able to tell readers who unleash on me on my blog that I don’t want them around? Like when they complain bitterly that a recipe didn’t turn out for them even though I know that this particular reader has a history of not following the recipe as written, and then angrily blaming me for it?
How do I do that without getting mobbed by hungry, angry gluten-free people??
If I could do that, my life would get better almost instantly.
I’m afraid. And thrilled! But afraid…
Nicole, sounds like you are on to something. You may not have to swear or call down profanities to get rid of a pest, but you can be firm.
You’ll feel better later on, but it will take a while to get over the icky feeling.
Thanks, Timothy. I’m still stunned at this whole prospect. Don’t worry – I wasn’t considering verbally abusing anyone (well … no I wasn’t. honest). My (literary) agent has a different philosophy about the whole thing, and so I forced myself to bite back on this. But it never felt realistic.
Thanks for weighing in. Much appreciated.
What!!! thank you…Bro! Thanks a million
There is a strange thing about selling. I believe it has to do with your confidence. How else could someone sell something which is way too expensive but inferior to those in the market? Derek thanks for the post from Ramit. I believe some people were born to sell and from what I read,, Ramit is one of them.
Tough, but true! I just had a similar scenario where I had to tell the person “don’t buy from me” which will save them tons of $$$ over time. Thank you for continued incredible content!
[…] also did another interview on the psychology of monetization, too, where I cover more academic psychological and marketing theory. This is for the true […]
Derek and Ramit, thanks a lot for such an interesting podcast, full of advice and very useful information.
After listening to you it’s very clear that listening to one’s readers demands and responding to their need is crucial. Moreover, in order to know these demands and needs, the role of a survey -a very well designed and written one- is very important.
But from my point of view the most important question is, how do you entice/motivate your readers to answer to your survey? If you don’t get anyone to do so then the rest is useless -which is what happened to me every time I tried to ask my readers to fill up a questionnaire.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Could you please make it into a 2 line summary next time? Otherwise I waste way to much time on this!!
… No – joke 😉
Really good interview. I don’t think too many people can use his method, but when you are bigger it’s pretty interesting. I also signed up for his newsletters which seems to be full of knowledge so far.
WOW – Lesson #2 – Don’t post comments until you’ve listened to the ENTIRE audio. Scratch that last comment I made.
Hey Derek, your audio file doesn’t seem to play when clicked on. Can we expect it to be back up sometime soon? Thank you!
Haha! After listening to the first part of Ramit’s Survey audio, I’m amending my previous comment to say that I’m not asking open-ended questions so much as directed questions with multiple choice answers (e.g., what attributes are you looking for in x product? check all that apply.) Looking forward to more good tips as I listen on!
I’d like to start off by thanking you for transcribing the audio. I have a sleeping infant on me, and I don’t have my headphones handy.
Like other respondants, I appreciate the idea of weeding out undesirable readers/subscribers. I’m no big time business person. I’m starting a little home business sewing children’s accessories and garments, accompanied by a blog (to be released soon)! One of the things I worried about in the blog was tone. What if my readers don’t enjoy my writing? But I realize that the kind of reader I want to attract would enjoy my flavor of writing. And my longer blog posts.
As soon as my baby goes down for another nap, I’m going to take a look at the survey writing material. I just got finished making my first test product for several local testers, and I am giving them a survey to fill out to help me develop the best product possible. I will most certainly ask more direct questions about their experience with similar products as well as other more open-ended questions (not just: rate my product).
One more thing: I’m happy to see I’m kind of doing things the right way; the product I’m developing is seasonal, and I expect to release a “final” version after doing more R&D over the next six to eight months. Just in time for NEXT winter.
Thank you again!
Awesome! Thanks Derek + Ramit – this was fantastic. Really loved how you talked about the program development and research behind becoming the leader in the market. Thanks!
Some guys really have it. 300,000 visitors to a blog? I will always learn from such a person. Internet Marketing is a serious business and we cannot take it lying down. It demands all the materials that we can lay our hands on so that is why I am going to grab Remit’s material. I know it will definitely contain the details that I need to make it.
Great interview Derek. i know Ramit’s stuff pretty well and great to hear him talk – bringing business sense and business ethics – resulting in superb positioning. Wonderful. Thanks 🙂
Another great interview. I follow Ramit on his blog & it is great to see him here.
I really do enjoy his views on psychology & how when applied to businesses it can do great things.
Successful marketers have known this all along since decades. Yet it is rare to see people really applying those insights in the real world.
The points i liked most about are his views on researching & his thoughts on the importance of targeted audience. I liked these points because i feel that is where i should be putting my focus on from now.
Thank you for the excellent stuff once again.
Thank you for this interview, I really enjoyed it. I did have two questions:
Where do you start when it comes to data points? Ramit talked about having tens of thousands. Is this primarily from services and emails?
Both of you talk about research, especially when it comes to product creation. Does this mean that it is necessary to do your own experiments in addition to reading what experts are saying on the topic?
It was a fascinating interview, I’m just a bit overwhelmed as to what is the logical next step to implement some of the ideas.
Thank you for an excellent, eye-opening class.
I have so many key takeaways and love the unconventional, out of the box thinking from you and Ramit.
His example of the sushi restaurant and the chef withholding the salt from his diners reminded me of an excellent experience I had at a top sushi restaurant in Vancouver – Tojos. My husband and I went there based on a NYTimes review saying it was the best sushi outside of Japan. We learned from the review that if you were ready for an amazing experience, not just a meal, it was best to sit at the bar and let Tojo himself make your selections for you. We did this. We were asked what we were allergic too and after that ordering was (willingly) out of our hands. When our first items arrive my husband reached for the soy sauce and Tojo boomed out “No soy sauce!” He did it with a smile and we quickly caught on that his cuisine was way above our previous experiences with sushi and that the soy sauce routine was not required and even harmful to his creations. As each delicacy arrived, Tojo would wag his finger at us and say “No soy sauce.” My husband and I ate course after course and only cut it off when we were too full to conceive of another delicious bite. We happily forked over hundreds of dollars for our dinner for 2, not caring that this was double if not triple our normal ‘nice dinner out’ expenditure. Almost 10 years later we still rhapsodize over that meal and “No soy sauce” is a secret joke between us.
I appreciate Ramit being able to unpack just why Tojos went beyond a delicious meal and ended up a treasured experience.
So definitely going to do my research, choose my customers wisely and I love not letting people with credit card debt ‘finance’ a purchase on Ramit’s personal finance site. I’m so stealing that idea (with mods) for an about to be launched personal finance site that has an entirely different target market then Ramit. My partner and I will definitely give credit back to you both.
I would like to add my thanks for the transcript. I am mostly deaf and have a distortion in my residual hearing, so electronic sound is very difficult for me to decipher. I can manage video since there are visual aids, but audio is pretty much a wash. So this deaf girl is very thankful for your provided transcript. I’m forwarding it on now to my partner and several others I know who will benefit from the excellent info.
Great stuff. Can’t wait to see what you come up with next 🙂
Great information Derek! Loved the call! Definitely a unique perspective on selling. Thank you! I always look forward to your posts!
Hi guys! Thanks a lot for this great class. Forwarding it on now 🙂
I particularly appreciate Ramit’s strong no-bull simplicity. It’s so easy to get lost in a sea of thought, doubts or scenarios about how people ‘might’ receive or reject the content…
SO, yeah, clarity, clarity, clarity. Know what you want, who you want to work with, what they want (and need) and then that’s it. You can just be fully focussed on creation and clear delivery.
And yes, the survey thing is a brilliant reminder. I’ve watching this a while back- and now it’s time to implement it more fully.
I highly recommend listening to this information multiple times as you progress in your journey- because it’s different and has new applications every time.
Thanks Derek and Ramit 🙂
Hey Derek, great questions lead to great answers ! Lol You sure did your research about what is in Ramit’s Mind…in other words, this interview is a great example of how to put the theory, blueprints given here by
Ramit into practice…The few biggest takeaways are a reminder, to use the language of Wants before I receive the authority to present the Needs, and doing it with ought gear dishing my authenticity, via another takeaway of showing that my free stuff is even better than the paid stuff in my market place. I will begin opening to public, some of the best ‘members only’ material and offer clear distinction between good information and Behaviour Change…Wow, I could go on and on, thanks Derek.
Yes, research is the most important! The pain question is one of the best to start out with I read all over the place. I do believe it will pay too. I’ll be doing this really intensely soon, so I’ll need it.
Thanks for the post Derek.
Making sure you do what you do because you’re genuinely interested and want to help or provide a service to others, as opposed to just slangin’ sales pitches and products is KEY –
It also happens to be just what Social Triggers Insider is all about – I’m a fan!
Wow, Ramit’s refusal of buyers with credit card debt is unbelievably bold. I love it, genius idea.
It is genius… I love how he can’t even check to see if it’s true. He scares people off and there’s no way he can verify it.
This is not only a great business lesson but also an extraordinary lesson on business ethics.
Awesome Cristina, and glad to see you here commenting!
[…] How to Charge 100X More Than Your Competition, Sell a Ton, And Keep Customers Happy (with Ramit Seth… […]
So, what is the ONE thing I can do right NOW, to earn me some money?! 😀 LOL
Great stuff, tnx for posting! It gave me a lot to think about, for example, that I should only appeal to the group of people I really want to, and what is the question inside the head of the customer which should be adressed. Nice.
You’re welcome, and glad you enjoyed it.
It’s funny though. We laugh about it now, but there’s so many people who wonder ‘what’s the one thing…’
It seems so silly to us right now, but I can’t tell you how many times people email me and ask me that.
Ok Derek. You’re right. This is really good stuff. Seriously enjoying it.
Glad you’re liking it Jason.
Thank you for posting this. You obviously crush it with this blog and I love the clean layout- graphics are overrated.
Ha ha, thanks Nate. I’m a minimalist at heart… clearly.
Really like the research part and digging deeper into the minds of your target audience. I’d be interested in understanding tactics to get individuals to fill out surveys beyond promotional or financial incentives.
Sometimes you’ll find all you have to do is ask. People love to share their opinion once they know like and trust you.
Incredible interview! It seems you’re taking things to a new level, digging deeper into these topics than most everyone else.
I especially liked the concept of saying yes to the right people and no ot the wrong ones. The wrong customers steal time, money, and peace of mind, but hardly anyone brings this up.
I can’t tell you how much I’m appreciating this series and how much I appreciate the time and effort you’re putting into this, for us.
Thanks, Derek. I’m a fan for life.
Awesome. That’s what I want to hear 🙂
Ramit’s comments about knowing the specific words of his audience reminds me of the book Clean Language, by Wendy Sullivan and Judy Rees. The concept of clean language was developed for therapists, but it’s a powerful tool to use in communication. You strip your own metaphors out so that only the other person’s metaphors color the conversation. Have you heard of it?
With regard to not throwing your pearls before swine: damn straight.
Not only because it’s a waste of your precious time and energy, but it’s a disservice to those who really don’t want what you’re offering.
The number one mistake I saw at the gun shop I managed was ego-driven selling. (I’ve also seen it in my job as manager of a security guard training company, so it’s not just about guns.) The sales guys “knew” what the customer wanted/needed, and refused to believe the customer should have any say. Unfortunately, this is the norm in the gun business, which was why I was able to build up a loyal customer base that reached several hundred miles. (El Centro is on the bottom edge of California, and people came from hours away to buy from me.)
I see now how restricting my audience is a good thing—I mean for what I’ll personally be selling, which is a writing course. I’m teaching a university course on writing this semester, and I’m going to use surveys to collect data points so I can see what works for students and what doesn’t. I’ve been noodling about who my ideal clients would be, and I was pretty discouraged when I realized that they’d have to willing to dedicate a substantial amount of time to the course, and they’d have to be completely committed to doing the assignments. I thought that restricting the course would be cutting off my own head. I see the value in being particular.
Thank you, Derek, for bringing Ramit to your blog–and thanks for the transcript. Podcasts frustrate me because it takes me longer to process what I hear—I have to pause and think, then rewind, relisten, pause again—it’s just not for me. Too many brain-things to juggle.
In fact, I probably wouldn’t have responded at such length if I hadn’t had the transcript.
Hey, thanks for such a thoughtful and engaging comment.
I haven’t heard about clean language but it makes sense. In copywriting, they always tell you to use your target market’s language because that’s what they’ll identify with most.
I’m glad you like the transcript. I know the transcripts for something as long as 4o minutes or an hour make sense.
And also, I obviously agree about restricting your audience :-).
Regarding modality, it was nice to sit on my couch away from a screen and distractions, and just absorb this. I can’t wait to hear who you interview next. Ramit is a thought leader for sure, and you are definitely making a big impact in the industry.
Glad I found your site.
Thanks John. Glad you’re here, and I got your email. Will get back to you soon.
“Let me blow a little smoke up in your direction.” Hahaha… nice.
Ramit is super impressive. I listened to him over on BlogCastFM the other day and was really impressed.
Great podcasts series you have here.
Haha, I didn’t want to say ass, but I should have.
HOLY GUACAMOLEEEEE!!! Seriously? I can’t believe I just heard the worlds’ AWESOME-EST interview in my pajama + without even having to take out my credit card.
Have been listening to you two since RHH Live + have already learned SO MUCH. I’m hooked to this series. Keep em’ coming!
GRACIASSSSSSSS from Panama!
Glad you’re here Mayi! RHH Live was great, wasn’t it? 🙂
Thanks Derek, great info! Love what you’re doing with the ST master class. By the way, what social media sharing plugin are you using on the left side of your blog?
I almost never use plugins, aside from my own plug, Webinar Bridge.
Going after the one thing to grow your business reminds me of the celery test in Simon Sinek’s book Start With Why.
The Celery Test Goes Like This:
You chase the one thing, the new shiny object to succeed abut they are not inline with who you are and why you do what you do.
One guy tells you you need to add M&Ms, to boost your business, you hear from someone else celery is the key, someone else tells you whole grain is the answer. They each worked for the guy that told you but when you’re online an the checkout ready to pay you look at your items and the M&Ms don’t fit in. they don’t fit with the why. Why’s are unique for everyone. What’s your why?
That’s a good point…
And I do see what you’re saying, but how do you think that applies specifically to researching and selling products?
Are you suggesting that people should focus on developing their Why first, then research second?
I loved that Ramit mentioned his mentor Jay Abraham. I really trust, respect and like Mr. Abraham’s work. I enjoyed both your interview and the “bonus” survey material. I’ll definitely be writing some surveys of my own soon, and I feel much more informed.
Don’t we all? To date, Jay Abraham’s newsletter is one of the only ones I subscribe to.
It was a great interview. Rammit is really good at what he does and is great at explaining the stuff.
I’m really sorry you do not ask about what we did not like. But may be it’s better… I do not want to be kicked out of your list!
Thanks, very interesting ideas about quality and pricing.
Derek, the transcript is especially helpful for non-native English speakers to understand what was being said.
cool. Glad it was of help.
I’m just doing an e-book with a survey in it and it’s much better information than an e-book I did without a survey – instead of one person’s ideas and experience you get the benefit of x number of people’s ideas and experience.
He’s so right about surveys and research!
As in, you’re embedding the survey in the ebook?
Yes, embedding the survey’s results – lots of charts and graphs of the survey’s answers plus comments left by the respondents. Sorry not to have made that clear.
So, that bitly link has been clicked 198 so far on this page.
Derek, I think it’s time to use a new service. They’re too revealing over there. Try doing 301s with your HTACCESS or something. 🙂
And that’s a perfect example of wasting your time on things that don’t help you build your business.
Though, congratulations 🙂
Some seriously cool info in that interview, thanks so much to you for putting it together and to Ramit for sharing his knowledge.
Here are some takeaways from my first pass through the material:
1. Qualify your list. Get rid of the people who don’t value your information.
2. Product research. Don’t throw a course together for a ‘quick’ sale – spend extra time making the best course you can. (This is very, very cool btw)
3. Love love LOVED the exclusion of people who have credit card debt being allowed to buy in. Awesome.
4. Deep research and multiple surveys….plenty to chew on.
5. Pricing Thoughts – liked the breakdown of pricing on different types of courses and teaching modalities.
Really great interview.
Glad you liked it Paul. Good summary, too. That’s some of the big hits, but I don’t want people to think they’ll get “everything” from just a short summary like that 🙂
Loved the class, so much good info. I wanted to tell you that when you mentioned that you both send out “what’s your biggest issue” type emails, you inspired me to do the same. I paused the lecture to implement it by sending out a message to my list asking for feedback — and have immediately gotten 6 responses already! Thank you (as always) for your great content.
No problem Ivete. Glad you’re enjoying it, and of course, make sure you share it 😀
Hey Derek – just a suggestion… your media player uses flash which means those of us accessing from iPads and the like can’t hear it.
As a web developer (who has built a few band sites requiring audio) may I suggest you try a plugin that doesn’t use flash such as WPaudio.
Interesting tip. Though quick question: If you click the MP3 link, can you hear that on the ipad?
Your Social Triggers Master Class is really innovative and (so far) leagues above the junk that a lot of other bloggers are attempting.
With the “drafting” technique, and now Ramit’s innovative take on surveying customers and NOT selling anything (perfect!) I can’t wait to see what you’ll pull out of your hat next week.
Glad you’re enjoying it Joshua.
Wait til you see what happens tomorrow too.
Gonna be adding something else to this page 🙂
Research… Research… Research… Love Ramit’s Perspective.. Thanks for sharing this Derek!
You’re welcome, and glad you enjoyed it.
Great work yet again bud, keep killing it with these interviews. (Just got your email by the way, will get back to you today)
Also, are these audio sessions of yours going to be catalogues podcast style on iTunes? I’d be glad to leave a good rating on iTunes for you but I guess it’s not live there yet (or you aren’t uploading them there).
Just have been too lazy to get it up there.
Will do it soon though.
You rock! What a fabulous Q and A with Ramit. I discovered you less than 2 months ago but am referring to your findings constantly to help me make informed decisions. I don’t know where you came from but I love what you’re doing. Fran
Thanks for that. Much appreciated.
I’ve been building websites for more than 6 years now, and much of these findings are from my experiences and research.
In my opinion, this is some of your best work. I like how Ramit talked about his work not being a commodity & how he “allows” his subscribers to engage in his content, rather than targeting a HUGE audience. Not only do I respect him personally for that, but that thought process has opened new doors for me for my thought process. Kudos to you & Ramit Sethi for allowing us (subscribers) to listen to the training for free!
Glad you enjoyed it Brian.
Ramit is the man. Met him last year, and have kept in touch since. Make sure you check out that “how to write a 100,000 survey” bonus material.
Some awesome advice from Ramit – particularly liked the points about research, research, research and also really focusing on who you specifically want to do business with.
Research really is the answer… Once you understand what plagues your readers, solving their problems can be much easier. Why? Because you know what problem you’re solving.
I know, and I liked the fact that he spent SO much time (and money) investing in research, too. It really is key.
I also used the transcript… Good material which I’ve saved for later!
Yes, transcripts do make it portable.
Nice, thanks for this!
You talk about people who complain about watching video or posts that are too long, but actually I really appreciate that you posted the transcript for this one.
I don’t want to skim necessarily because I don’t value the information, but because I’ve read/seen so much of Ramit now that– when I catch him reaching out to a new audience that hasn’t necessarily heard his main ideas before– I want to know ahead of time if he’s covering stuff I already know. 🙂
But if people write you with a bad attitude about the general medium or style that you use consistently on your website then that’s probably bad news 9 times out of 10, yeah.
Hey, I always post the transcript of the audio. It was people who were complaining about the video, which was 4 minutes long. I won’t transcribe the videos 🙂
I appreciate you doing the transcript. I just don’t have the time to sit through 30 minutes to an hour video.
I like to skim and quickly get the takeaways.
It looks like you didn’t skim the transcript either
Classic response, given the content of the audio.
Brilliant. Just brilliant.
No way! How do you do it Derek? You read my mind again.
I’m working on a launch for a UK career expert at the minute and having never heard of Ramit, I came across his site in my research the other day – so checking out how he positions himself and does his marketing is literally written on my to do list. I guess I’ll be ticking that off pretty soon!
That really played into your plan Megan. Good luck
Funny that you talk about “mind reading” because we talk about just that in the call too.